Hello, and welcome to awaken your power. I'm your host, Keri Mangis. And it's been a while I think the last time I did a podcast was in the midst of the pandemic. And so I'm really glad to be with you here today. And today's topic is the power of the liminal spaces, those times in our lives, when we're no longer who we were, and not yet who we will become. These are the times in our lives when we are in between incarnations. And so I'd like to start with a quote by Fernando Pessoa. He says, I am nothing, I'll never be anything. I couldn't want to be something. Apart from that, I have in me all the dreams of the world. And I love this quote, because it starts off with this sense of, maybe even hopelessness or despair. Or at least, that's how we tend to read it in the West, when he says, I am nothing. Someone said that to us, we might feel obligated to try to comfort them, and give solace and say, of course you are, look at all this that you've done. And then he says, I'll never be anything. And again, it just feels like a continuation of this hopelessness, and despair and struggle. But then the third line says, I couldn't want to be something which is brilliant, and wise, what would it be like to not want to be something? What would that feeling be like, so that the mood shifts here. And then he says, apart from that, I have in me, all the dreams of the world. So a quote that starts off sounding quite desperate, quite sad and hopeless, ends up with this feeling of fullness of all the dreams, and all the possibilities in the world are available in this moment of nothingness. It's just this incredible statement about the power of the liminal spaces. We might not like them so much. And we might not find that they are comfortable. Especially if we've just lost a job or a relationship that meant something to us, or even just transitioning from one life stage to the next. Most of us are quite attached to our identities and our roles. And it happened when we were young. It began there. When we were asked what do you want to be when you grow up? So right away, we learned that the goal of life is to be something to be someone to have a label or a title that brings admiration, or money, or fame. And so then, of course, this desire to be something became intertwined for a lot of us with guilt and shame, when we didn't feel that we were something that we had accomplished something. And there was a lot of obligation wrapped up into it too. And this sense that we have to prove ourselves in the world. Be somebody become something, do something with your life. These are the models of our western world. And yet, the power of the liminal spaces, the the Twixt and between times, we've all had them. We've all experience them. They're not often comfortable, because it is hard to be nothing. To have somebody ask you what do you do and to to not have a ready answer, to not know what to put on your nametag or your business card. These liminal spaces though, are filled with possibility and potential. They are rites of passage and It needs to be understood and unraveled, for all that they can be for us when we understand them. In many cultures, and especially in ancient cultures, these kinds of times in life were understood. In fact, they were part of a three stage process, a rite of passage, where the first event is an initiation of some kind, and initiation between childhood and puberty, or between being single and being married. And we have some of those. In our world, we have initiations like the bachelor party or the bachelorette party or a bridal shower. These times that opens us up to a new way of being, and then we're in a portal. And that portal, is where there is that possibility for transformation. But it is possible for us to walk out that portal, and be just as stubbornly attached to our identities and labels, as we were before, no matter whether they were good for us or healthy, or supportive, or confining. Sometimes it's the devil we know, versus the abyss, the abyss of nothingness, that space of not knowing who we are. That's the second stage in the rite of passage. First is the initiation. Second is the liminal stage, which can last for any amount of time. And there are no rules around how long one stays in this space. And then the third and final stage is the return. It's the rebirth, it's coming back to society, reborn in a new place of responsibility, or a new place of wisdom, or a new place of knowing there is to be transformation, in this rite of passage. Without that, it's just time spent in mourning for what was it would be like the caterpillar entering the chrysalis, and just really, really wanting his legs back, which I mean, I can understand, right? I mean, the legs are all he knows, he knows how to walk, he has no idea how to fly. But there's that trust in the process, there's that wisdom of knowing that in the chrysalis, when he gives himself over completely, when he becomes nothing more than the consistency of pea soup, that that then is where the real transformation lies. He may not know how to fly, how Woody, but he trusts that he will have wings. And so as to when we find ourselves in these liminal spaces, there is so much power there, there is potential. The Alchemist, when they talk about their process of transformation, there are three stages. There's the Negredo stage, which is the breakdown stage or the crisis or the initiation, the loss of the old way of being. Sometimes this comes really slowly and we don't really notice it. And then one day, we look back and we say, you know, there, there's been so much loss, and then other times, it happens suddenly the loss of a job, a death and illness, or some other disruptive event that shakes up our normal that shakes up status quo. And that asks that we look deeper at who we were, and where we're going. That's the Negredo stage. The second stage in the alchemical process is the albedo stage. And this is the liminal. This is the time of, of possibility of returning to what the alchemist would call our first matter. For you see, when we are when we're children, were filled with so much potential and possibility. We're just overflowing with it. But then the world kind of picks and chooses and we pick and choose the few that we're going to hone. And we become, you know, a little bit a little bit smaller, right? We begin to shape ourselves to fit into society, we become molded, and if we never went into our own kind of chrysalis, if all we did was continued to try to change from this molded space. You can see now you're just limited by which directions you can move next, you have to come out from the molded place. That's change. When people talk about changing, that's change, changes, a new habit, a healthier mindset, like these things can all be formed out of the person that we are. So much of the personal growth and self help landscape is about change. Transformation is a whole different thing. Transformation is when we let go of that molded thing we become completely. And we bring ourselves back to that peace soup, we melt ourselves down. We become potential. It's interesting too, because the self help world talks all the time these days, especially about manifestation, manifestation, coming into creating something bringing it to life. And while I love this work, it's not as powerful for me as possibility. Manifestation is set. It's one thing, it's surety, it's a safe space. But uncertainty, the liminal the unknown, the space in between. This, to me is where there's real power. In The Tibetan Book of the Dead, there's a quote that says, this constant uncertainty, uncertainty may make everything seemed bleak and almost hopeless. But if you look more deeply at it, you will see that it's very nature creates gaps, spaces in which profound chances and opportunities for transformation are continuously flowering. If that is, they can be seen and seized. Now, it's not our fault, necessarily that we were raised in a culture that that focuses on growth, and moving forward. And perpetual growth really, and never really taught us what it looks like to transform. Other cultures do know this, other cultures did know this, but ours hasn't. Ours is a culture of accumulation of adding on. But it reminds me of when I was in Myanmar. And I went to go do a ritual with the locals. And they have a big Giant Buddha statue of Buddha. And part of the ritual is you buy a little piece like a inch by inch square, well, probably two inches by two inches square piece of gold leaf. And then you go and you can do your prayers and your bows. And you put the gold leaf on the Buddha. Now every day, there are hundreds, if not 1000s, of people that come to put a piece of gold leaf on that Buddha. And while that Buddha is sparkling with gold, right? It's just accumulated. It's just hoarding and holding and maintaining. Sometimes we do this in life, afraid to let go afraid to move on afraid to leave a life stage. And so we Hoard and we hold and we accumulate. Even when everything in and around us is telling us it's time it's time to shed our skin. If we're a snake it's time to enter the chrysalis if we're a caterpillar. But no we humans, sometimes we just saw ourselves back up, adapt to our wounds, you know, we can limp a little here limp a little bear. Don't worry too much about it. We get wounded we just put a smile over it. Here is where we can learn from the power of the liminal from what the Buddhists called the Bardo that doorway. That space between that murky middle. I love the liminal spaces in my life, almost more than the spaces of manifestation. There's just something so potent about being able to sit in that space of creation, creating in the verb. less worried about The results less worried about the manifestation. Saint John of the Cross 14th century Christian mystic, referred to a period of time in life called the dark night of the soul. And this too, was a kind of liminal space, brought on, in his case by an existential spiritual crisis, and his relationship with God. Which for us to can bring about, that can be the initiation that brings about the liminal. That then can bring about a rebirth if we choose to accept, but it's called the dark night of the soul, because we can't see. And that's what we're resisting, when we when we want to push forward out of our liminal when we want to hop to that next place of certainty and surety. When we want to grasp another identity, or another role, just so that we have something, to call ourselves something, to hang on to being nothing. That's, that's an incredible thing to be. That's an incredible space and time to live in. Michael Mead, he's the author of awakening the soul, said, We live in a time between times amidst a past fast disappearing, and a future that often appears to be darker than anything we have known before. The betwixt and between Cloud quality of time has become more revealed as we find ourselves in a liminal space, where endings and beginnings exchange rapidly, and nothing seems clear and certain, are fixed in stone. Call it apocalyptic time, or initiatory. Time, for it is both. So here, Michael Mead is taking this idea of the liminal time, and bringing it from the personal to the collective. Which of course, the pandemic, the great pause the space in between times, when we were no longer who we were as a collective. And we didn't yet know who we were going to be. Now, in our case, and this is a perfect example of what happens if we rush the liminal. It is an incomplete transition. It is an incomplete initiation. Yes, we're here we're here in a new future. We are no longer who we were. But we wouldn't say that we were completely reborn for the work of the liminal is deeply reflective, deeply introspective, and willing to continue to undo the things that have already become somewhat undone. In other words, the Coronavirus the pandemic was a time for us as a culture to reflect on who we become, to our ways of being to our attachments to our identities. And certainly, yes, pockets of individuals pockets of communities have made changes that have continued on to this day, largely I can think of the work at home movement, that was a rebirth, a reawakening and a re understanding of the way that we can go about work. But for all the other things that were brought to life, for the problems in our medical system, to the problems in our education, and our healthcare, and our communication, and our political system, all of these other problems that got brought to light, most of them went right back underground, so that we could remember the quote, get back to normal, get back to the status quo. We're tired of being here in this pause. We all set it. We're tired. We're, we're bored. We want normal back, just get us back to something and so we did. But we didn't do all the work. We didn't complete the journey. See, liminal spaces are not understood by our society. We don't know what they are. And we certainly don't know what they're capable of doing. So of course, we push through it. Of course, we said we can't have this. We need to keep accumulating. We need to keep growing. And remember, growing is just growing out of the mold. So everything is adaptation. Ever Everything is just a slight adjustment, a quick fix a change of habit, rather than actually looking at the unconscious processes within us that are creating the habits. A liminal space has no timeline. But that doesn't work for a culture in a hurry. And a liminal space requires acceptance, because it's the only way through. And I don't know about you, but I didn't meet a lot of people who were truly accepting of the space and the stage that we were in. But cultures like people must go through transformations, and they must go through rites of passages, because it's the only way to be reborn. It is the only way to truly transform the systems and the institutions from the ground up, because it is the only time that we will actually look at the thought processes that create them. Rather than just tinkering with them, transformation begins in the soil begins with what's growing the institutions and the systems that are dysfunctional. Now returning back to our individual lives. Now we know what that could look like if we don't complete our transitions if we push through the liminal stages. And so maybe you're in a liminal stage right now. You're not who you were, you're not yet who you're going to be. Maybe you're going through a life stage, transitioning into menopause, transitioning out of the workplace, transitioning into the workplace, whatever it might be, it will bring you into a stage of confusion and uncertainty. Because you don't quite yet know how this feels yet. I don't know about you. But I still remember the first time I put on a suit, and went to work in like a business suit and heels. And it felt like I was a little girl playing dress up, which I think I was. And then after a while that gets comfortable. Same is true when I first started teaching yoga, and wearing the clothes of the yogi and being in that skin at first you're not sure. Is it you? Is it not you and then pretty soon, pretty soon there was no separation. Pretty soon I still remember years after I taught yoga took me so long to put on a pair of jeans again, because I just hadn't worn them. in so long. We transition we shift we change. But sometimes we bring our identities with us some kind of holdover from a last lifestyle. Certainly, you could be in a liminal stage because of some kind of crisis, personal or collective or family. disease and illness, changes in marital status, family status, all of these things can bring us into crisis. But here's one thing I want to say about the word crisis. And it's a word that scares a lot of people. And I understand. But if you look a little more closely at it, the word crisis is actually made up of two Japanese characters. The first character means danger. And the second character, some say, it means opportunity. But if you look closer, the second character means a turning point. That's what a crisis is. It's a turning point. In that space where we've become first matter where we've returned to our pure potential and possibility, then, then we can really be reborn be something new. And then we can try on new roles we can try on new identities, we might not wear them as tightly. That's one thing I've learned through my incarnations is each one I hold a little less tightly. I cling to a little less because I've seen what happens. I understand their temporary nature. And some I sat down and pick back up again. I was a runner in high school for years, I didn't run at all. And lately I've been running again. That identity of a runner has been with me has left me has returned to me. This is life. This is the journey of life. We don't have to force ourselves. We don't have to push them away. They come in they go and we just get to be the actor in the play. Sometimes we move into a liminal stage because of some kind of conscious choice we've made to move on On from another way of life that no longer serves us. These are beautiful, but challenging times in life too. Sometimes it's easier to just stay with what's known. But leaving, leaving that thing that gave you comfort that gave you status, even if it wasn't healthy or right or good, is so hard and should be embraced and appreciated and respected. Again, in a culture that doesn't understand that side of the human lifecycle. Now, according to most of the western human lifecycle, we just were born, we grow and we die. But in a more alchemical way, in a more holistic way, we die many times in our life, and we're born many times in our lives, which in order to be born and die that many times there must be the liminal, then there must be the spaces in between the times when we are nothing. That is how I went to Myanmar in 2014. I went there after leaving my work as an Ayurvedic practitioner for several years. And I'd studied, and I had the accolades and the certificates and the titles, and the letters behind my name. And I left it for reasons that are worthy of another podcast. And I went to Myanmar by myself, I had it guide. And I practiced being nothing. I practiced, not feeling like I had to say anything to anybody about who I was or what I did. And it was interesting, because in that culture, when I met people, they didn't say, what do you do? They said, Nicola, which translates to have you eaten yet. So they're much more interested in seeing to your needs as a human being, then hearing what your accolades are, or your titles or your roles. So it's important to understand that this is very much a Western thing. And we can see through it, it's a fallacy, it's a lie. It's indoctrination, that we can break free of, and then we can let ourselves more freely move through the stages. So unlike the caterpillar and the butterfly, we get to do this many times, many times. And that's what makes life so, so beautiful. And so enriching is that at any time in life, you can choose to release your attachments you can choose to return to first matter. You don't have to wait for a crisis. The truth is, is that if you're not willing to go through the natural stages, just recognizing when it's time, then crisis, then that's when it might come. The universe has a way sometimes of pushing us into the cycle if we're not choosing it ourselves. So it could be one good reason to move into liminal stages, once in a while in your life, see if see if we can avoid the crises that way. There are some ways when you're in a liminal stage, some some tips and some ideas to think about, because as I said earlier, this is a time of darkness. So I can't tell you it'll last six months or nine months or three years. I can't tell you how challenging it'll be. And the thing about the dark night of the soul is there are other people who have been in there, but they can't walk it with you. They can support you and they can, they can guide you but it is a little bit of a journey we have to walk alone. So understanding and learning how to be in silence, silence and solitude with ourselves comfortable with ourselves is good practice for the liminal spaces. I've been in other liminal spaces in my life, where not only did I lose my work and my livelihood, but I lost all the friends that came with it. And the resources that came with it, all my networks gone. And so there it was just me learning to be with myself. And so that's, that's a practice. And you can you can practice it in the liminal or you can practice it at any time, so that you can and tap into it when you're in the liminal. So you know how to be alone. Also, this is a time of deep reflection. This is when we want to look back on the roles and identities we've held on to up to this point, want to understand how they've served us or not served us, we want to understand where they came from, what their origins are, and whether or not we need to carry them into the future. Reflection Hindsight is a huge part of being in the albedo stage. As is healing, this is a time of returning to wholeness, a time of reclaiming our our whole selves, doing shadow work, doing soul work, doing soul reclamation, reclaiming the last pieces of our voice and our power, things that we've traded along the way, because we thought something mattered more maybe power or influence, or belonging. So this is a time of deep, deep healing, the kind of healing that isn't surface, but that digs into the wounds, understands their origins, doesn't just stitch them up, cleans them out, removes them, integrates them into who we are. And it's about letting go surrender such a huge lesson lessons in surrender, and letting go in the albedo or the liminal stage. And trust, trust that this is a lifecycle that we are all meant to undergo, that were designed to undergo, and that the more we do it as individuals, the more we can teach the culture, how to do it. And the next time we as a culture are in a liminal space together and there will be a next time we can guide it towards a true rebirth. Thank you for listening to the awaken your power Podcast. I'm Keri Mangus. For more of my work, current and future offerings, please go to my website at WWW dot carry Mangis.com